Curse

Song Rui · Oct 04, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

i cant believe people can even lose to vim... its so easy to beat.

Luddendorf · Oct 04, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Agree with this totally although I say it clearly takes more skill to be an expert at Tombs due to the varying match types as well as being thrown into 16vs8 situations whereas GVG is always just a much more simple 8vs8.

I think a lot of the problem here is that several months ago many of the "top guilds" went into Tombs a few times, got completely obliterated by IWAY PUGs - not because IWAY was overpowered, but rather simply because the so-called "top guilds" happen to suck at Tombs for the most part. Then the top guilds stopped playing in Tombs because they were embarrassing themselves with all the losses to IWAY being seen by the world in Observer mode. However, instead of taking the high road and being honest that they simply sucked at Tombs, they went on to say "GVG takes so much more skill" (despite that being blatantly untrue) and since they were the "top guilds" according to the Guild ladder page, many people bought into that bogus claim from the "top guilds who couldn't beat IWAY".

I believe this course of events also is one of the main reasons that Anet is now changing Tombs to scrub PVP.

One of the worst parts about tombs is that not only does it foster a poor competitive environment due to maps and the ghostly hero, but it also makes scrubs like you think they actually are good at the game, when you obviously aren't, as evidenced by your posts.

What top tombs teams go on to be top at gvg? I guess you could make an argument for iQ and EW, as they used to play tombs competitively over a year ago but that was before gvg was actually popular and didn't have hour long waits. Beyond that, there aren't any good teams from tombs that make an impact in gvg. They either don't ever stay up high or they run gimmicks and get rolled in playoffs.

Tombs is just a simplified version of gvg (no splits, no vod, much more restricted maps, no flag) that is about as mindless as gw pvp gets. There is absolutely no logical argument that you can make that says tombs takes more skill when it is completely restricted and dependant on bad a.i and a 3rd party's whim more than anything else.

The thing you have to realize is that tombs is such a farce that the real top teams (read: gvg guilds) don't care at all about tombs. When you pug with them you get a very distinct impression of this. i,e dude who cares, it's tombs. This is partially because the competition is so poor, but also due to the sheer randomness of tombs. When you look at really top teams when they play tombs, where do they lose the most? Halls and courtyard by a longshot. Being able to defend 16v8 is not harder than trying to outsplit War Machine. It just comes down to whether you can run a build that has a crazy amount of defense and barely enough offense to sneak by the lower rounds, or to get lucky and hope one of the other teams is stupid and doesn't try to double team you immediately.

As for the change, of course the major tombs players would be angry at it. Why would they want to have to change how they play rather than keep beating all the terrible competition with the same old stuff? And of course the gvg players are going to like it, because now, or at least briefly, tombs might be something that isn't a total joke to them. None of this should be surprising, but it does highlight the decadence of the tombs community quite nicely.

Zui · Oct 04, 2006, 06:50 AM // 06:50

6 vs 6 and new maps are a good thing.

It will git rid of the stagnent metagame that currently exists in HA. Plus, it will most likely remove horrible maps such as Courtyard...

Arcador · Oct 04, 2006, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Let see the new map changes before we throw the buckets of flame.

Effendi Westland · Oct 04, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Change is good imo, stirs things up.

VGJustice · Oct 04, 2006, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

the main ppl who support the 6v6 are low ranked ppl and need to find some way to farm their fame up.

And this is exactly the reason that most people avoid HA entirely. It's mandatory farming in a game that was designed around not needing to farm.

This change gives us "low ranked ppl" a chance to play in a portion of the game where we've had no real chance of playing in. I'll bet if you asked exactly the same people that you're referencing as being in favor, virtually all of them would say that HA is broken and not fun as it is. I stopped going in there shortly before Tombs became PvE because all I could find were gimik builds and rank elitists at all hours of the day. Any PUG I found was either so worthless that they couldn't even beat the unworthy or they'd just start jumping ship before anything got started. That's not fun. As it stands, HA is just a huge headache and hassle to someone that doesn't have a lot of time or friends.

I'm not saying that this will be a magical elixer of a fix and that everything in HA will be roses now, but I think it's a huge step in the right direction. I honestly think that this format better fits the basic premise of the game. You know, the whole "no need to grind to play PvP" thing.

jackie · Oct 04, 2006, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

Look. all i know is that the majority of r6+ players that still HA dont like this and the high ranked pvp players that do suppport this is mostly in favor just out of novelty reason.

the main ppl who support the 6v6 are low ranked ppl and need to find some way to farm their fame up.

dont believe me? go pm everybdoy who supports this and dont, meet them in game and see wut rank they are.

Using words 'Majority', 'Main ppl', 'Low Ranked Ppl' is really generalization here, since you propably haven't done any research and talked to all pvp players in the game.

We know that players either love the idea, hate it, whatever it, or are getting used to it, but noone can say what the Majority thinks. Over 2 million subscribers in GW and quite a bit of them playing PvP, majority of players aren't in forums, aren't your friends.

To the topic, every update to PvP has made things more fresh right? Skill updates, map tweaks, reducing HoH teams to three, etc. I can't see why this 6vs6 won't do that same. I mean come on ppl, why are you scared and angry of changes. Changes force players to use little more creativity, that's all.

Phrozenflame · Oct 04, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

all i can say is that this is lame. the only builds ic usable after 6 man are d smite, vim, igay, and og spike. thks anet, u nerfed urself.

LOL , these builds are more powerful 8v8, during event they got so much pwnage that bspike stopped to exist, MATH got pwned by unranked pugs, dsmite is bit hardred to beat, but thats if ur > IGAY :O.

I disagree with those who are saying r6+ people do not support this change, I'm almost r7 and I love these changes.

I guess its the fake r6+ iway/bspike noobs who will be complaining the most since there builds are now gg.

People who are going to continue to play or fear IWAY / ViM are totalt idiots, keep playing and loose more often

, obviously initially it will be intresting, but give it a month and bspike and iway are going to die.

Darakus · Oct 04, 2006, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quite in love with the changes my guild was just in the process of slowly building a team build up for HA 8vs8 (through a lot of losses as the build was designed from a general idea and then refined through play) and this change is giving us the opportunity to start from scratch in a new environment.

This said I hope a 8vs8 or xvsx environment (with x being bigger than 8) will come into play in the future to extend the number of opportunities at pvp level.

For 8vs8 I'd like to see an environment where the natural pressure on a team is such that real strategy is required to gain control of the fight (flag capture giving real spike damage instead of low end one, npcs attacking at random if some conditions are met, map size allowing for hide and seek and forcing snaring as an obligation, ... in short a bit like GvG but with several rounds to it.)

Mystical · Oct 04, 2006, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

Look. all i know is that the majority of r6+ players that still HA dont like this and the high ranked pvp players that do suppport this is mostly in favor just out of novelty reason.

the main ppl who support the 6v6 are low ranked ppl and need to find some way to farm their fame up.

dont believe me? go pm everybdoy who supports this and dont, meet them in game and see wut rank they are.

I like it and I'm rank 9. I guess you got me on the novelty part though. HA needed something to make it exciting again, and this works.

Making HA 6 man just makes sense to me. Teams is 4, HA is 6 and GvG is 8. ANet is trying to push GvG as much as possible, it is Guild Wars after all.

Lady Lozza · Oct 04, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

I love it! And it has nothing to do with being low ranked (4) - it has to do with getting a game! I haven't pugged it in HA for ages given the poor attitude of a lot of the players there. 8 players with the right skills can (at times) be hard in my guild. 6 makes it much easier to form a guild team, we had the time of our lives during the 6v6 HA weekend! Thank you Anet for this wonderful change!

Snowman · Oct 04, 2006, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Great news!

Always thought that the jump from 4 man team to 8 man was a bit steep, it should be much easier for players of all skill levels to form teams.

With a new chapter coming along and a whole variety of skills and with map changes to HA I dont see how people can assume that it will be a bad thing.

To all the people who dont like this and posting BS about it... I LOL @ U

xD

Avarre · Oct 04, 2006, 08:53 AM // 08:53

I find 8-man HA more boring than 6-man, so I quite like this. For those bitching it's too similar to TA... well, TA had a higher competition level, maybe the teams that aren't vimway will be of better quality. It's not like parades of Vimway are any worse than armies of 8v8 bloodspike teams that get confused when their leader dies and run around.

Mia R · Oct 04, 2006, 08:58 AM // 08:58

I will give 6 v 6, a go! I am pleased they are changing the maps..about time!

I noticed on the 6 v 6 weekend, that monking was very unpopular, because it became like monking in Team Arena and GvG, take out the monks and bye bye team!

Not many people like monking GvG, except for a few sadists, because the game really hangs on them, but atleast if both monks are dead in GvG, the hard res player is dead and noone has any res sigs left, the team can retreat really quick into their base and wait for res, so they have some form of defense!

In HA there is no retreat in to a defended base, with gate locks! So take down the monks, who in 6 v 6 will have very little defense and then kill the team easy! I will be interested to see how most teams deal with this!

I think anyone who doesn't play monk might enjoy the novelty of this change for a bit, but I think it will become dull pretty quick as the team builds are so limited and the fun of 8 people playing together is lost

I know people say well you can play 8 v 8 in GvG, but this is so frustating, with all the error 7 and map bugs! You can be playing really well in GvG be winning and your monk or strats caller error 7 and all your effort and rating is wasted

At least in HA 8 v 8 you could error 7 and just resign and go back in again to try again! You didn't lose rank etc!

My guild were doing great in GvG last season (playing Balanced builds) , but after 10 error 7 in 10 consecutive games, we raged gvg and went back to HA, and totally dominated the HoH! Anyway this season, we have changed our attitude to GvG and are playing stupid builds just for fun, but noone takes us seriously for that and complain that we are ruining the ranking by not playing balanced!!

So now if I want to 8 v 8 I am forced to play GvG with all the error7 rubbish, where only elitests who have nothing else to do all day but play GW, get to the top ranks, unless you play stupid builds! So most normal people have never even got a chance of being in the top guilds unless they give up life!!

At least in the fun of 8 v 8 HA anyone had a chance of winning, regardless of rank or experience, and that made it fun.

Now we just have a slightly bigger TA or GvG for to choose from

*sigh*

pigdestroyer · Oct 04, 2006, 09:00 AM // 09:00

this is the final blow for IWAY

...its weird I just cant see HA without iway..

selber · Oct 04, 2006, 09:03 AM // 09:03

As said - best change for HA since a very long time. Good job Anet.

@maraxusofk: Nearly everybody in my guild is r10 or 11. Most stopped HA last year. I know they all agree with me and will appreciate it alot. I won't tell you what i think about the players and their average skilllevel, who cry endless rivers about the change.

Cnegurozka · Oct 04, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

We always feared this will come, it's the worst thing ANET has ever done to GW!
This doesn't change HA, it SHUTS DOWN HA! And replaces it with something else. The Event was fun for a few Days, but 6v6 really lacks the Team Coordination and the many possibilities of a 8v8 build.

They should have introduced a new arena with 6v6, but not close HA the same time.

vancha · Oct 04, 2006, 09:23 AM // 09:23

this is jus freeking sad. They can't just take away the most popular part of GW. c'mon, it may be fresh the first 1 week, then IWAY and dual smite is all we're gonna see.
Rather make a new arena, then to remove the best part of the game. The reason ppl liked the 6vs6 event was cuz of the double fame. now, making gvg the only 8vs8 part of teh game...

A-net, make SEPERATE arenas instead.

QoH · Oct 04, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystical

HA needed something to make it exciting again, and this works.

You just wish that was true. Well at least there will be new maps.

gr3g · Oct 04, 2006, 09:44 AM // 09:44

In my opinion, 6x6 felt less serious than 8x8. It's now a choice between 2 half-smiting monk backlines which collapses under pressure, and 1 full heal/prot monk backline which also collapses under pressure. Pressure > you. Maybe this is the dawn of a new era of self heals. Or maybe the new age will be decided by who can outsmite whom the fastest. Whateve the case, it feels childish.

Anyway, I think GW is headed in a PvE-intensive direction with Nightfall, which probably means I won't even bother hanging around after I beat the PvE missions once or twice. Hero vs. Hero is just a big yawner for me. I was hoping for something with the scale of Alliance Battles and the strategic depth of GvG, but nothing that exciting has been announced or even hinted at.